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Post by garyshots on Sept 15, 2022 22:24:28 GMT
Having only read the Book of the War recently, I found it kind of surprising quite how much of the greater mythos surrounding the Faction itself is rooted in the 18th century style. Previous works like Alien Bodies and Interference had primed me to see them more in a Haitian voodoo light, as opposed to the more overtly occult aesthetic they present here (though as with any malleable concept, the Faction's later appearances in the first two of their bespoke book range don't go heavily on this 18th century vibe either). I suppose though it makes sense given the whole concept of the Eleven Day Empire, not to mention The Adventuress of Henrietta Street, which in parallel with Book of the War seems almost like an alternate take on similar material, one with and one without the Faction itself in a primary role. Is it Doylistically that Miles's research for Henrietta Street fed into his other work?
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Post by garyshots on Sept 15, 2022 23:01:54 GMT
The sombras que corta are so cool. I can't think of much that's similar. Peter Pan's shadow. And the gebbeth in A Wizard of Earthsea. But they're not that similar. I wrote a super long article about this sort of thing if you're interested, but the short version is that I believe FP can and should stand separate from Dr Who. I am interested. No Part 1?
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Post by darkspine10 on Sept 15, 2022 23:22:54 GMT
Having only read the Book of the War recently, I found it kind of surprising quite how much of the greater mythos surrounding the Faction itself is rooted in the 18th century style. Previous works like Alien Bodies and Interference had primed me to see them more in a Haitian voodoo light, as opposed to the more overtly occult aesthetic they present here (though as with any malleable concept, the Faction's later appearances in the first two of their bespoke book range don't go heavily on this 18th century vibe either). I suppose though it makes sense given the whole concept of the Eleven Day Empire, not to mention The Adventuress of Henrietta Street, which in parallel with Book of the War seems almost like an alternate take on similar material, one with and one without the Faction itself in a primary role. Is it Doylistically that Miles's research for Henrietta Street fed into his other work? Probably in some aspects more than others. Like, the Mal'akh seems to stem right from the Babewyns of Henrietta, while a lot of the Faction-specific stuff goes in slightly different directions, going more for an 18th century conspiracy and mystery angle, over the more direct occultism and sweeping history of Henrietta. They're more sister works than a full overlap of themes, especially given that Henrietta was also setting up Sabbath and the new status quo for the Post-War continuity, both of which go largely undiscussed in Book of the War.
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Post by bumbles on Sept 16, 2022 0:25:43 GMT
I rather like how Obverse expanded on what the Sombra Que Corta can do - for example one story has a SQC that (like the fictional book of the enemy) turn someone into fiction (possible designed to affect that one person). It’s from IIRC Burning with Optimism’s Fire.
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Post by doctornolonger on Sept 16, 2022 2:53:33 GMT
much of the greater mythos surrounding the Faction itself is rooted in the 18th century style. Previous works like Alien Bodies and Interference had primed me to see them more in a Haitian voodoo light, as opposed to the more overtly occult aesthetic they present here […] I suppose though it makes sense given the whole concept of the Eleven Day Empire, not to mention The Adventuress of Henrietta Street, which in parallel with Book of the War seems almost like an alternate take on similar material In writing style alone you can tell The Book of the War and Adventuress were written around the same time, with their unreliable academic style. (Similarly, maybe This Town is kind of a Dead Romance 2?) But Miles’ affection for the 1700s began even earlier: his first Who novel, Christmas on a Rational Planet, is largely set in post-colonial America at the turn of the 18th century! Emphasizing the occult angle over voodoo makes for a more culturally sensitive approach. The voodoo influence in Alien Bodies was a little too “other”, if you know what I mean. I would love to see a proper, culturally sensitive take on Afro-Latin spiritualism though. Papa Legba, Cousin Exu … it practically writes itself. I wrote a super long article about this sort of thing if you're interested, but the short version is that I believe FP can and should stand separate from Dr Who. I am interested. No Part 1? No, not yet. It’s a Tale of Two Time Wars, so part 1 will be about the NuWho War. I’ll finish it one day. Great comparison with Peter Pan!
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Post by garyshots on Sept 17, 2022 11:58:51 GMT
Father Stendec should have his own spinoff. Fantastic Beasts and When To Free Them. He's played not by Eddie Redmayne but by a winged Lowenmensch with a flaming scarlet mane. (Of course the Doctor got there first.)
Anyway! The wild pig herds he leaves roaming the tunnels are of course a reference to these, which also turn up in Neverwhere as the Great Beast of London. I was amused to see someone mischevously question Gaiman on tumblr recently about one of Miles's offensive remarks about him of olden yore. The crushing reply from Gaiman? "Who's Lawrence Miles?" The correct answer, of course, is "No-one," because rather than make the requisite dark pacts to eventually get a Faction Paradox show on Netflix (watch Gaiman's Beowulf: it's all there), Grandfather Loz chose to erase himself from history instead.
I love the primal pre-Faction paganism of the Tower Hill and Unkindnesses entries. I don't believe for a second that the Unkindnesses sprang from drops of Grandfather Paradox's blood- but the reference to "myths of King Arthur" is significant. Rewind to the Tower Hill entry and we're told about Bran the Blessed, the giant talking severed head buried there to protect Britain from invasion. (I shall leave aside for the moment anachronistic speculations about Boe the Blessed and the qualities his buried head might have conferred on the Eleven-Day Empire.) Now, as we all know, Arthur rashly dug up Bran's head because he disdained that his land should be defended by aught but his own valour. So what did the Grandfather dig up? (Or is this covered in the first couple of audios? My memory is not what it never was.)
(In a tangential London far bleaker and more apocalyptic than the Eleven-Day Empire, hundreds of thousands of Remote (and the odd aging New Young God hard-up for attention) are queueing to curtsey to a coffin. I wonder what's in there, and who has custody of the real Relic?)
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Post by Aristide Twain on Sept 17, 2022 12:50:25 GMT
I don't believe for a second that the Unkindnesses sprang from drops of Grandfather Paradox's blood — but the reference to "myths of King Arthur" is significant. Interference is slightly more explicit about what the Unkindnesses are: they are the exact same entities as the Ravens of the Tower of London, but, unlike every other living thing in London, they did not blip from September 1st to September 14th, instead existing throughout the extended timeline of the Eleven-Day Empire just like the building itself. And in here, they don't have to hide what they really are…
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Post by doctornolonger on Sept 17, 2022 18:42:49 GMT
Father Stendec should have his own spinoff. Fantastic Beasts and When To Free Them. ”Stuck in the Stacks” would make for a great FP RPG adventure. Mornington Crescent themed of course!
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cousinunseen
Little Sibling
Posts: 18
Preferred Pronouns: she/they
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Post by cousinunseen on Sept 18, 2022 15:46:04 GMT
Y'know, I only just caught up to the end of the reading material this week. But as I read through the entries on Tower Hill and Westminster it struck me just how ironic it is that London as the Eleven-Day Empire is what the Faction chose as its base of operations.
Like this supposed revolutionary organization dedicated to rebelling against the temporal imperialism of the Great Houses chose the political capital of the British Empire, an empire that's been used as a metaphor for the Great Houses and their place in the Spiral Politic itself. And not only did they chose the physical location of London as their base, they specifically used the House of Parliament as their headquarters. And in the Tower Hill entry it's stated that by doing so, the Faction 'aligned with the politics of the State instead of the city', which is why places like Tower Hill fall outside their jurisdiction.
Also of note is the Westminster's entry describing the role Big Ben played in enforcing British standards of time across the Empire, much like the Houses enforced a linear standard of time across history. Again, very ironic that this building was chosen by an organization that opposes linear standards of time.
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ray
Little Sibling
We are not amused.
Posts: 5
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Post by ray on Sept 19, 2022 17:54:18 GMT
The City of London is older and more primal in a way, it's rooted deeper in time than Westminster. Even today, it still has remnants of its unique ancient laws (in real life), and the ravens cast a long shadow.
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Post by brunojclwho on Sept 20, 2022 2:20:39 GMT
This, the Grandfather might have said, is how the Spiral Politic stands. There's death, and there's raw biology. I acknowledge both of these things and wear their colours. Oh, and so does my House.Welcome to week 2 of the Book Club of the War! Thank you to everyone who joined us last week, and if this is your first time, it’s never too late to join in: just read through the Announcement and Reading Schedule for everything you need to know. If you're on Twitter, you can also tweet along with the hashtag #BookCluboftheWar. This week we’re diving into The History of Faction Paradox: - Anchoring of the Thread (p. 10-11)
- Armour (Faction Paradox) (p. 12-14)
- Audience of the Ruling Houses (p. 14-15)
- Caldera (p. 26-27)
- Eleven-Day Empire (p. 50-53)
- Fashion Paradox (p. 65)
- Gregorian Compact (p. 80-81)
- History (p. 86)
- Imperator Presidency (p. 98-100)
- Intervention (p. 100-101)
- Linearity (p. 115)
- Loa (p. 115-116)
- London (Eighteenth Century) (p. 117)
- Morlock (p. 127-128)
- (House) Paradox (p. 149-150)
- Recruitment (p. 161-162)
- Ritual (p. 168)
- Severance (p. 174-175)
- Sombras que Corta (p. 179-180)
- Stacks (p. 185)
- Stendec (p. 186-187)
- Tower Hill (p. 201-202)
- Unkindnesses (p. 204)
- Westminster (p. 221-222)
Some food for thought, to get things started: - This section gives us a chance to get to know Faction Paradox, our Promethean guides into the War, before we’re swept off to other parts of the universe. If you’re new to the Faction, what stood out to you? If you’re a longtime fan, is there anything you feel that other stories haven’t explored or emphasised?
- This is the first of several sections of our Design Specs where the entries are arranged alphabetically. To me this highlights that they were meant to be read in this order, even if you didn’t know about the Design Specs. Did you feel that reading in this sequence builds towards any particular point or effect, or do you think it didn't matter?
Next week we’ll continue the story with The History of Earth! Sorry for disappearing, I'll start commenting.
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Post by quicksilverkitling on Sept 20, 2022 3:16:32 GMT
Sorry for disappearing, I'll start commenting. Nothing to apologise for! I think we're all working our way through the Book at our own pace, and a pretty leisurely one at that
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Mop
Little Sibling
Posts: 10
Preferred Pronouns: He/They
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Post by Mop on Sept 20, 2022 17:27:32 GMT
I've ended up a bit late with finishing this section, but I do just want to share my experience with reading this. So far, I've been trying my best to not read these entries in the order laid out, just to be a bit of a cool rebel y'know? It worked fine for Week 1, but what I found with Week 2 is that it was a bit more difficult. Repeatedly I ended up with no options but to follow the order (granted, I think part of it might be that the EPUB I'm using might have a bias towards this order - my only proof of this is that one of the entries after Loa in the list mentioned Loa but had no hyperlink to their page). Eventually, I just gave up and went along with this order.
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Post by shuncucker on Sept 20, 2022 19:38:41 GMT
I've ended up a bit late with finishing this section, but I do just want to share my experience with reading this. So far, I've been trying my best to not read these entries in the order laid out, just to be a bit of a cool rebel y'know? It worked fine for Week 1, but what I found with Week 2 is that it was a bit more difficult. Repeatedly I ended up with no options but to follow the order (granted, I think part of it might be that the EPUB I'm using might have a bias towards this order - my only proof of this is that one of the entries after Loa in the list mentioned Loa but had no hyperlink to their page). Eventually, I just gave up and went along with this order. The epub isn't biased, all of its links match the bold words from the print book! Except for a few places where the print book forgot to bold the next step in the reading order ... does that count as a bias?
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PI9090
Cousin
I was loomed this way.
Posts: 91
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Post by PI9090 on Sept 26, 2022 23:05:25 GMT
If Grandfather Paradox is played by Ronnie Barker (because of Fletcher from Porridge), then at least one of the lieutenants obviously has to be played by Richard Beckinsale (who played Godber, Fletcher's impressionable younger cellmate). And what was the name of Beckinsale's other famous character, in Rising Damp? Alan Moore.
Too silly?
Maybe if taken to too serious and greater extent but we can certainly use the physical likenesses of such actors for the four original Godfather lueitenants fanart purposes if nothing else. Porridge: Richard Beckinsale. Porridge and Open All Hours: David Jason. The Two Ronnies: Ronnie Corbett. The Navy Lark and Clarence: Richard Caddicot. <Auteur?
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