Week One: The Core Entries

First and most importantly, thank you so much for starting and organizing this!

I've been a Doctor Who fan my whole life (currently 50 years old) and I've been aware of Faction Paradox as this... complicated corner of the Doctor Who fandom. I've always meant to jump in, but never got around to it. But this project finally inspired me.

I think my first question is: do you all think of this as the actual Doctor Who universe? Or something completely separate, inspired by, but not overlapping?

One of the things the struck me when reading this week's entries was in the section about The Remote. It talked about The Remote project was an attempt to not only breed troops, but create symbols, "planting new loa among the human societies and watching them grow." It made me think that maybe *our* universe is the Faction Paradox universe, and Doctor Who, as a show, is an idea planted in our world to get us used to the ideas of the real universe out there.

I like how this writing style describes the ideas and actions of the Faction Paradox universe. It's like it's using our limited language to describe things that are on a fundamental level *unknowable*. This, to me, is the best way to describe/not really describe the Time War. I haven't listened to any of the Big Finish audios concerning it, but between the show and some of the books, it's starting to feel a little too "knowable." I liked back in series one when it was described is causing the universe to shake, and yet being unseen by lesser species.

My final thought for now is I appreciate the Lovecraftian-ness of the Yssgaroth. Reminds me of the creature from Russell T Davies' book Damaged Goods.

So excited to be doing this!

I've really enjoyed this weeks entries. I found the description of the Great Houses to be pretty cool. I feel that they're described as more mysterious and unknowable than the Time Lords are in Doctor Who and I like that a lot.

The Remote are also a really cool concept. It feels like a commentary on how interconnected the modern world is with influencers being large idols in the younger generations, but taken to the next level. I do feel that, if society continues on its current course, we could end up in a situation like is described. 


I love this idea so much.


I also liked the description of the Spiral Politic and the way it is mapped. Things such as the shooting star worlds feel really cool and inventive.

All in all, reading in this order is so much more accessible than reading in alphabetical order. It feels much more natural and consecutive entries feel much more linked. I also like how there are entries that have been linked a few times but that we haven't gotten to yet, building a sense of anticipation. Even just within this week's entries, Yssgaroth was linked a lot before I reached its entry and so, by the time I did, I was very excited to find out what it actually is.

I'm looking forward to starting on The History of the Faction Paradox!

Welcome Scott, and thank you for joining in! Part of the reason I wanted to run this book club is that I'm hoping for a "fresh look" at The Book at the 20th anniversary of its release, as if I was reading it for the first time, separate from everything that’s built up since. Fans have certainly settled into a consensus – as Anastasia articulated above – that this is "the same universe without the Doctor's metanarrative" – and there are very good reasons to believe that; but sticking to that consensus too dogmatically might lead one to overlook the many interesting bits of evidence pointing elsewhere. For instance, one line that stood out to me:

Wouldn't this catastrophic process change the history and culture of the enemy homeworld just as much as the rest of the continuum? Are these Great Houses really the Time Lords of the TV show? If the enemy had already won … how would we know? Would we?

Similar ideas have been played with in many subtle ways elsewhere in FP. For example, in a twist on the same semiotics, I think there is an implication you can easily read into Dead Romance that perhaps the Time Lords have been fleeing down the ladder of bottle universes for a long time; that the Gallifrey we know was formerly some other planet that they terraformed into a Homeworld-duplicate. There is far too much emphasis on how unrecognisable Christine's Earth becomes overnight, and the depiction of the remainder of humanity scrabbling in the dark and in the cracks of the new masters, returning to prehistoric levels of civlisation, is perhaps the most interesting gonzo theory of the Outsiders and/or Shabogans yet devised. 

I can't get it out of my head that Celestis and The Division are the same. I know the Celestis are "Gods" who have achieved their "Final Ascension", but The Division feels similar to me. They don't care about Destroying entire Planets in The Flux, they think they're Gods, Gallifrey was destroyed, and theoretically they didn't participate in the War, but they wanted to chase the Doctor because she would "get in the way" (something like that, it's been a long time since I saw that Era). For me, The Division is perhaps a future version of the CIA (same as Celestis)>

The way the Celestis became "Gods" just like the Eternals and Celestials, It reminded me of The End of Time, and how Rassilon and the Time Lords wanted to ascend as Gods.

on the part of: "It should be noted that on the Great House Spiral maps, there are marked areas that do not seem to correspond to any known planets. It has been speculated that they may in fact be people, individuals Such blinding historical importance that, when mapped, they appear larger than entire worlds." I remembered a certain renegade renegade traveling in a blue police phone booth. (And I remembered Celestial Intervention - A Gallifrey Noir)

I like the "mythical" way the Time Lords are treated here, and not just mere fake politicians.

(second post for a second subject)

Rereading the "Yssgaroth" entry, I appreciated the language used to describe them. They're not just vampires or spooky Great Old One-esque beings, they're a horrific unfathomable force of pain and torture - I could really believe they're an existential threat to the universe.

I was interested in the question of whether there's one Yssgaroth or many. We're told that:

• "It's known that only one of the Yssgaroth managed to tear its way into the continuum, on the Homeworld itself"
• "It's possible the Yssgaroth is just one mass capable of splitting itself up"
• many "servants" of the Yssgaroth also entered the universe
• the servants might be "small fragments of its mass, or the genuine gigantic, misshapen inhabitants of the Yssgaroth universe"

I've always like the meta aspect of FP storylines, although I don't know if I ever feel ready to let myself go down the rabbit hole head first. I get the sense of a tug-of-war over the idea of fetishizing aspects of FP, or DW. FP emerged out of elements of Alien Bodies, elements that I was really interested in seeing have life beyond the scope of DW stories. To some extent, though, I resent the idea that FP avoids embracing this aspect of itself. I like the idea of it developing it's own identity, but I feel like part of that involves sacrificing so much of what gets it started, that it makes it ghost-like and un-recognizable. I recently read an article that speculates about the idea of FP jettisoning it's DW DNA makes it hard for it to take-off, while allowing for DW elements is akin to rejecting Sydney Newman's declaration of "No bug-eyed monsters!"


The idea of a non-world being so massively important as a war-priority, and that a non-world might even be a single individual, looks very different with that kind of behind-the-curtain writers' secrets perspective in mind.

Talking broadly about the Faction Paradox entry, and the organization itself. How many others who have read Christmas on a Rational Planet agree with the post above that the mention of the word "Carnival" is not an accident, but deliberately calls to mind the chaotic nature of the universe before a structure and order is imposed on it? I agree, it evokes that book, and makes me think of the chaotic possibilities and consequences of CoaRP. One thing that is a little embarrassing is that I never picked up on a slightly disdainful tone that Alien Bodies and FP kind of has about it's political factions. I was fascinated by the idea of counter-culturalists and...devil-worshipers of Gallifrey/The Great Houses. I was less fascinated about the type of people that end up in those kinds of groups, and more interested in the anthropological idea of it. So I too easily dismissed just how mean spirited Brother Manuele is, and that Cousin Justine's self-presentation of dignified, otherworldly mystique collapses in the face of physical violence, and Manuele's base desire for Cousin Justine.

I never picked up on the shabbiness that was there at the beginning, until I more recently re-read Alien Bodies. One of my more recent visitations to the Book of War left me feeling a little dismayed to realize that Faction Paradox are cast in the framework of the saying history repeating itself, first as tragedy, then as farce. And to look beyond the scope of FP and imagine the Eremites/(Cenobites from Hellraiser?) as the original version, and Faction Paradox as the pathetic joke version that came after. I've only ever watched clips of Hellraiser, and read synopsis, to compare to the idea of Faction Paradox as a less-intense version. Or maybe we should reflect on Hellraiser as how intense the chaos of the Carnival Queen's universe would be experienced? I know this is getting ahead of things just a little bit...