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Post by doctornolonger on Nov 27, 2022 19:00:22 GMT
In short, the Eleven-Day Empire wasn’t revolutionary enough.This thread of the Book Club of the War is for a very Faction Paradox love story: the rise and fall of The Thirteen-Day Republic. - Anastasia (p. 9-10)
- Cult of Celebrity Death (p. 39)
- Dyavol (p. 46-48)
- House of Lords (p. 94)
- Malachite Room (p. 118-119)
- Nadim (p. 132-133)
- Octavia (p. 141-142)
- Red Burial (p. 162)
- Removal of Members (p. 167–168)
- Thirteen-Day Republic (p. 188–189)
- Valentine's Day (p. 206-207)
- Winter Palace (p. 222)
- Witch-Blood (p. 222-223)
Would I be dating this thread too much if I made a comment about Ra-Ra-Rasputin or asked whether this is a better love story than Thasmin? Well, too late! Let us know below before revisiting The Impaler's Story or voyaging onwards into the Labyrinths.
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cousinunseen
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Post by cousinunseen on Nov 27, 2022 22:16:31 GMT
sorry I haven't posted much here I just want to reiterate a previous comment I made in a discord server about two possible attempts at canon-welding Power of the Doctor with Events preceding the Thirteen-Day Republic: 1.)The idea that the real Rasputin joined Faction Paradox and just had the Master take over in his absence as a convenient alibi.
2.) After escaping the Winter Palace, the Master is mistaken for Rasputin by the Faction, is inducted into the Cult of Celebrity Death, and spends his time in the Eleven-Day-Empire and the Thirteen-Day-Republic desperately pretending to be Father Dyavol, all whilst the Faction has no idea they've had an alternate version of the War King within their ranks the whole time. [/spoiler] |
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Anastasia
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Post by Anastasia on Nov 27, 2022 22:17:55 GMT
Cousin Octavia and Cousin Anastasia have a tragic romance of Shakespearian majesty and deserve a movie or book or audio series or tv show centred on them.
What I find interesting is that the 13 day rep survived. And that it’s still out their.
Also what is in the House of Lords? Is it Enemy affiliated? The Godfather lieutenants? The Grandfather? An unkindnesses like Entity?
FINALY the the Unkindnesses prophecy to Anastasia and Nadim remind me of their prophecy to Justine and Eliza?
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Athenodora
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Post by Athenodora on Nov 28, 2022 10:18:32 GMT
Cousin Octavia and Cousin Anastasia have a tragic romance of Shakespearian majesty and deserve a movie or book or audio series or tv show centred on them. What I find interesting is that the 13 day rep survived. And that it’s still out their. Also what is in the House of Lords? Is it Enemy affiliated? The Godfather lieutenants? The Grandfather? An unkindnesses like Entity? FINALY the the Unkindnesses prophecy to Anastasia and Nadim remind me of their prophecy to Justine and Eliza? Minor spoiler for a later FP book, but let's just say I'm absolutely, definitely interested in your thoughts on Warring States now - it is definitely somewhere in the top of my list of favourite books ever, so yeah |
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Post by garyshots on Dec 1, 2022 1:04:12 GMT
Cousin Octavia and Cousin Anastasia have a tragic romance of Shakespearian majesty That's the right word!
The shadow-duel on the malachite table evidently made a deep impression on my tender soul the first time round, but I don't remember the parallels with Macbeth at all. Of course the Unkindnesses play the role of the Witches. The first time Macbeth Anastasia and Banquo Nadim meet them, they plant the seed that leads Macbeth Anastasia to ruin. Then Macbeth Anastasia has Banquo Nadim murdered. When she goes back for a second helping of prophecy, they use Birnam Wood the Red Burial led by no man of woman born the witch to lull her into a false sense of security, so she doesn't see Macduff Octavia coming.
I don't know what the Unkindnesses are getting out of all this though, unless (like Kathryn Hunter's Witches in that Joel Coen film) it's a political conspiracy. Is it relevant that Nadim was a djinnist? What's in the House of Lords? What about Rasputin's spirits? We're drowning in occult/chthonic powers.
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Anastasia
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Post by Anastasia on Dec 1, 2022 8:14:14 GMT
Cousin Octavia and Cousin Anastasia have a tragic romance of Shakespearian majesty That's the right word!
The shadow-duel on the malachite table evidently made a deep impression on my tender soul the first time round, but I don't remember the parallels with Macbeth at all. Of course the Unkindnesses play the role of the Witches. The first time Macbeth Anastasia and Banquo Nadim meet them, they plant the seed that leads Macbeth Anastasia to ruin. Then Macbeth Anastasia has Banquo Nadim murdered. When she goes back for a second helping of prophecy, they use Birnam Wood the Red Burial led by no man of woman born the witch to lull her into a false sense of security, so she doesn't see Macduff Octavia coming.
I don't know what the Unkindnesses are getting out of all this though, unless (like Kathryn Hunter's Witches in that Joel Coen film) it's a political conspiracy. Is it relevant that Nadim was a djinnist? What's in the House of Lords? What about Rasputin's spirits? We're drowning in occult/chthonic powers.
All of this is a fascinating connection which I myself never spotted and I am a fan of the Scottish play. My view on the Unkindnesses is that they form for the Faction what the Matrix is to the Great Houses. However I personally believe that Morlock was up to something behind the scenes doing what ever his grand scheme to do what ever he want the universe to do. |
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Anastasia
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Post by Anastasia on Dec 1, 2022 22:42:01 GMT
Minor spoiler for a later FP book, but let's just say I'm absolutely, definitely interested in your thoughts on Warring States now - it is definitely somewhere in the top of my list of favourite books ever, so yeah I would love to read that book but unfortunately I have found not a single copy for an affordable price and do not have a kindle account (nor do I really want to give Amazon money). I myself am heavily rewriting one of my earliest fanfics which dealt with the Rise and Fall of Anastasia, and their Romance is arguably more important to it than the revaluation, the original is not very good I myself hope the rewrite is better. Of course now I am advertising my own fanfic sorry. But I do really want to read That Book as I would help both with the fic and give me more Octavia content (you can see how much I love their BotW arc I named myself after Anastasia both as my username and my new name) |
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Athenodora
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Post by Athenodora on Dec 2, 2022 15:43:32 GMT
Minor spoiler for a later FP book, but let's just say I'm absolutely, definitely interested in your thoughts on Warring States now - it is definitely somewhere in the top of my list of favourite books ever, so yeah I would love to read that book but unfortunately I have found not a single copy for an affordable price and do not have a kindle account (nor do I really want to give Amazon money). I myself am heavily rewriting one of my earliest fanfics which dealt with the Rise and Fall of Anastasia, and their Romance is arguably more important to it than the revaluation, the original is not very good I myself hope the rewrite is better. Of course now I am advertising my own fanfic sorry. But I do really want to read That Book as I would help both with the fic and give me more Octavia content (you can see how much I love their BotW arc I named myself after Anastasia both as my username and my new name) Oh yeah, I completely get what you mean - just had a quick look at ebay's result for Warring States and wow that is a price tag.
I definitely would recommend reading the that book, as an important look at Octavia's character and personality, although I do have to admit, it's been a while since I read the book, and I didn't read it with "let's see what we can glean about the Anatasia story from this" in mind.
From memory - and it'd be great if people with better memory of Warring States can step in and correct me here - in Warring States, Anatasia is mentioned only sparringly, and Octavia certainly gives off an air of not being particularly bothered by what happened. But Octavia also gives off a sense of having a chip on her shoulder, of being restless, of being ill-at-ease - of being ready to be sullen and lashing out at people, even - I'll need to reread the book again cos, like I said, I didn't think in these terms the first time I read it, but from memory? It does feel like it's plausible to take it that Octavia was much more affected than she'd like to admit, yeah |
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Athenodora
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Post by Athenodora on Dec 2, 2022 15:58:38 GMT
Okay, so, something I've always meant to ask about - and, full disclosure, not sure whether this is a real bit of ambiguity/interestingness or just a matter of me not having read enough post-BotW materials - but for me, the big question is this:
how would Anatasia appear in the City of the Saved, after her ritualistic three-fold death by the Faction?
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Post by garyshots on Dec 2, 2022 17:40:55 GMT
Given the entry on witchblood, do we think Justine or Octavia are related to each other/anyone we've heard of?
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Anastasia
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Post by Anastasia on Dec 2, 2022 18:34:21 GMT
Given the entry on witchblood, do we think Justine or Octavia are related to each other/anyone we've heard of? I always imagine that Witchbloods and time sensitive are descendants of the Tribe of Gum or Vicky. However this si just my personal opinion and almost definitely wrong. |
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Post by garyshots on Dec 2, 2022 20:58:06 GMT
I always imagine that Witchbloods and time sensitive are descendants of the Tribe of Gum or Vicky. However this si just my personal opinion and almost definitely wrong. Yes, I thought of Vicky. Octavia Sutherland, Victoria Waterfield, Victorian era. Octavia/Victoria, not quite an anagram.
I gather that V. M. McCrimmon turns up in Stranger Tales of the City as well. I haven't caught up with the collections yet, although I loved the novel.
One wonders whether Jake and Justine McManus are descended from Jamie McCrimmon.
Justine and Octavia both have green eyes. I know that's a bit tenuous!
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leahhh
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Post by leahhh on Dec 19, 2022 20:48:06 GMT
how would Anatasia appear in the City of the Saved, after her ritualistic three-fold death by the Faction? Perhaps as three of her, like Rasputin (although his deaths functioned differently)?
The House of Lords is an interesting little mystery, isn't it? I like the suggestion that it contains the loa, but on the other hand the loa should be present all throughout the Empire. And if the Empire invaded the Republic because "the loa wouldn't tolerate" it, it seems odd that they would inspire Anastasia to create the Republic in the first place. Also, the elaboration the Book gives doesn't really make sense to me:
What's the argument here? "Since the Grandfather is part of the Commons, maybe that means he's part of the Lords, and the Lords is the other part of the Lords." I just don't see it.
Really all we know about what's in there is that it had a profound mental and physical effect on Anastasia.
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Anastasia
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Post by Anastasia on Dec 19, 2022 21:41:08 GMT
how would Anatasia appear in the City of the Saved, after her ritualistic three-fold death by the Faction? Perhaps as three of her, like Rasputin (although his deaths functioned differently)?
The House of Lords is an interesting little mystery, isn't it? I like the suggestion that it contains the loa, but on the other hand the loa should be present all throughout the Empire. And if the Empire invaded the Republic because "the loa wouldn't tolerate" it, it seems odd that they would inspire Anastasia to create the Republic in the first place. Also, the elaboration the Book gives doesn't really make sense to me:
What's the argument here? "Since the Grandfather is part of the Commons, maybe that means he's part of the Lords, and the Lords is the other part of the Lords." I just don't see it.
Really all we know about what's in there is that it had a profound mental and physical effect on Anastasia.
4. Their are Four Wing in the Faction one under Morlock (Biotech) one under Quelch (Ritual) one under Sabbath (Military) and one other Wing (mystery) what if this fourth wing and its godfather dwells in the Lords with their own plot and their own schemes. Making policy anathema to the Commons. One represents the people (the Commons) and one represents the rulers (the Lords) what if the House of Lords has the Lords of Paradox within and if so who dwells Buckingham Palace beyond the borders of the Empire. Are they the true Ruler? The Monarch of Paradox? |
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Post by garyshots on Dec 19, 2022 23:27:53 GMT
What's the argument here? "Since the Grandfather is part of the Commons, maybe that means he's part of the Lords, and the Lords is the other part of the Lords." I just don't see it.
I think it's saying that the parliamentary logic at work here implies that the Grandfather ought to have an opposite number in the Lords, albeit not necessarily one who actually exists any longer.
Temporal means secular as opposed to spiritual, of course, but it also means pertaining to time, and the Grandfather does appear to have been a Time Lord first. Could his opposite number in the Lords be a representative of Space?
We tend to think that we know quite a lot about the Faction. Thessalia might say that all this stuff about the Grandfather is a steaming pile of myth. The Great Houses might blame Rassilon and Omega for their own "culture", they barely remember the Other. Of course, the Grandfather may himself have been just as much of a genetic reincarnation of the Other as the Doctor- but what if he had an Other-figure of his own?
All these legends about the Grandfather, it's the Great Man theory of history. But behind every great Grandfather is a great Grandmother.
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