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Post by doctornolonger on Oct 18, 2022 3:48:04 GMT
"The arm is yours," it said. "We have no use for it."The second half of our Week 7 double feature: The Academician's Story. - Academicians for Game Logic (p. 6-7)
- Devonire (p. 43-44)
- Grandfather Paradox (Representations) (p. 75-76)
- Grandfather’s Arm (p. 76-77)
- Kaiwar (p. 106-107)
- Paradox Anxiety (p. 150-151)
- Thousand-Year Battles (p. 189-190)
- Waves (p. 218-221)
- Appendix I (p. 231-234)
From here, return to The History of Posthumanity or tune in next week for The Non-History of the Celestis!
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PI9090
Cousin
I was loomed this way.
Posts: 91
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Post by PI9090 on Oct 27, 2022 23:56:07 GMT
Academicians for Game LogicUntil the final pre War decades the timelords failed to reach the self awareness development stage. The Leser Species's rites of creation metaphors were the ideas they primed and programmed the universe with. Also Gallifrey is literally at the center of history and is thus the most important planet in existance. This inability to think in anything but absolutes helped cause and maintain the Timelord's cultural stasis. The last few centures .B.T.W. sw the creeping realisation that the Protocols be caccepted at face value caused chabeges: Morbius's presidency, Faction Paradox, annd the Celstis's creation. 30.B.T.W. The Timelord's realised the War was inevitable and nominated their first Academician for Game Logic Devonire. The War doesn't make sense without game logic. Both sides have access to unlimited resources and potential so it 's a literal war but one of ritual. It was not started as some kind of game. The brief awareness era was the Timelord's greatest era of prgoress ended by the War starting. Without this self awreness the enemy would never have been properly understood. DevonireA great: orator, debator, and negotiator but only started to rise afte r the War was acknowledged as inevitable. Thought the War meant the post Morbius presidency Timelord's constant dissent and infighting needed to end. Organised agreementts between the more ambitious Houses. First to negotiate treaties with the Lesser species and to point out the tactical inevitability of using the Lesser Species as permanant agents. (No menton of Ace or Leela). Pardoned useful prisoners and convinced a handful of first diaspora bloodlines to return. Wanted to complete the House unification by convincing Faction Paradox to return. Managed to get the complete probition of Faction briefily lifted. Thought the Grandfather's severed arm would be the symbolic gift needed to get the Faction negotiating. It failed and he fell victim to Paradox anxiety and was sent to Shada prison. His fall may have been inevitable as the Game logic era was quickly ending. Grandfather Paradox (Reresentations)Inuniverse this makes sense but out of universe it's undercut by Mr Miles revealing he looked exactly like Norman Stanely Fletcher. KaiwarThe whole situation appears have been a setup by the enemy to remind the Timelords of their abilities, (driving a Timelord insane with paradox anxiety and somehow taking his freshly severed arm from Gallifrey 1 without being noticed) while removing a very capable senior official who had effectively strengthened the Timelord's hand, (culturally and militarily if only slightly) by convincing most of the none Eremite members of the First Disapora to return to Gallifrey 1 and the release of useful prisoners from Shada. Immaculata's dialogue was a speech about how powerful her new allies were and their capabilities, (maybe even how they managed to get Devonire's severed arm). WavesFrom the Gallifrey's viewpoint, the war is sudden bursts of activity against the enemy followed by a long entrenchment period in which the High Council Houses pool their bo resources and manufacture the next wave. The Fourth Wave: No mention of Ace or Leela''s biodata being used. The Sixth Wave was either: 1.Retroannulled by the Timelords beause they were created too damaged. 2.Erased by the enemy. 3.Or retrocompromised by the enemy as loyal to them and thus retro annulled by the Timelords or themselves. The enemy interrupted the Seventh Time Assualt and after both sides substantially reordered the timeline it eventually degnerated into the Seventh Retro War as is typical. What did we find out about the enemy67.Didn't start the war to entertain itself. 68.Could not be properly understood by the Timelords without their new self awareness. 69.May take the form of an, "impression" in Timelord senses and perception matrix recording devices. 70.Their erasure tecniques leave an after impression in a Timelord's senses. 71.Allied with the Posthuman War Godess Immaculata Formosii. 72.Considered Devonire a valuable target. 73.Able to steal a falling severed arm from Gallifrey and offer it back to it's owner before he severed it. 74.Their first forces were as illequipped, (technologically and or tactically) as the Timelord's First Wave. 75.Either retrocompromised or erased the Sixth Wave. 76. Their agents, ("reps") can be: violated, conditioned, and psychologically degraded. 77.Interrupted the Seventh Time Assualt. 78.Was destined to clash with the Timelords because of both of their natures. 79.The initial moves of it's more blatant armies and meachanisms were to form vast time spanning bulkhead and unplanned strikes on several fronts as quickly as possible.
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Post by garyshots on Oct 30, 2022 23:32:12 GMT
I wonder if there's some mischief at work in the eight Waves. Fifth is "boring", Seventh is "morally questionable", Eighth is "generic".
I can't believe it's a coincidence that the war broke out on Dronid, rather than anywhere else in the universe, after it was ignored. When the Eye of Harmony looked away, another Eye looked in, and that's why the history of Dronid is protected. But I also wonder whether the Eye looking away allowed something to enter reality that, by its very nature, couldn't have existed in the observed universe.
"Though the leaders of the clique were returned to the Homeworld, the others have never been heard of since, but if any of them survive then they're hardly likely to pose any kind of threat in future." That ironic voice again. Did we ever spot them? They don't sound very formidable.
I'd like to know which weapons technologies were erased from the Homeworld's noosphere in the Enemy's first attack. The D-Mat gun? Things being erased from history is a bit of a running theme, as has been observed. It's not clear that the Great Houses really understand this process or its effects, and one can imagine the Enemy not wanting Xianthellipse to study it and perhaps understand them better. Or just not wanting to be erased, of course. The Hand of Omega? It's a stellar manipulator, and something has been tampering with the Homeworld's sun. In fact, the wiki says: "According to rumours, the Enemy destroyed the Hand of Omega at the start of the War in Heaven. (PROSE: Alien Bodies)"
The entry on Kaiwar is fascinating, and the significance of some of the details is not immediately apparent to me. "The two parties agreed to meet in an abandoned urban region close to the time-fronts on Kaiwur, a site which, as it happens, Devonire had already investigated during the early stages of his search for the arm." Was it during his first visit that he did/didn't lose the arm? "Considering that the building was located on the outskirts of the Thousand Year battlefields, it doesn't appear heavily damaged in the record." Is his mind filling in the details from memories of his previous visit, or is he not where he thinks he is? Is the building an Enemy timeship? "It can be seen listing towards the right, that side of the structure presumably being several hundred years older than the other since the battle." This must be significant, but I'm not sure how: it reminds me of a bit in The Book of the New Sun. Turning back to Thousand-Year Battles, we're reminded that "Even now, these worlds appear undecided, as if they were allowed to stabilise with their history halfway between one state and another." It's where Enemy history meets Homeworld history. "The battlefields of Kaiwar are now wastelands full of soft spots and contradictions," dying bodies trying to knit themselves back together, etc. The perfect location for some paradoxical shenanigans with the arm.
"Formosii edges out of the shadows towards the light from a rotting window-frame," and "one of the shadows in the corner of the room beginning to stretch forward..." Is the rotting window-frame merely for gothic effect, or is it to tell us that the window/light is coming from the older side of the building, and the corner/shadow is presumably in the newer side? Are they in different timestreams? Rotting window-frames make me think of spiders, but that may be just my place. Why does Devonire look out of the window? Is he sensing the time distortion at work, or is something happening to Kaiwar's sun?
Does Devonire just check the biodata sample from the arm using the Matrix? If so, it may not even be his arm. We're led to assume that the recording in Devonire's perceptive matrix was edited by the Enemy- but it could have been One just as easily.
Devonire sits on his balcony overlooking the caldera for days, wondering how to woo the Faction. Is One manipulating him? His irrational obsession with the arm does seem like he may be being influenced. But to what end? I think One doesn't want the Faction coming home, which is why she plants such a hopeless plan in his mind. She likes the Great Houses ignorant and predictable. And I suspect that the Faction have a much better idea of what's really happening on the Homeworld than we do. Remember, it's after the Babel tortures two Little Brothers on Zo la Domini that Thessalia twigs that there's something wrong with the sun. I think the Faction had dealings with her from their earliest days, and the Grandfather may have been one of her catspaws.
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PI9090
Cousin
I was loomed this way.
Posts: 91
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Post by PI9090 on Nov 2, 2022 3:20:38 GMT
"Though the leaders of the clique were returned to the Homeworld, the others have never been heard of since, but if any of them survive then they're hardly likely to pose any kind of threat in future." That ironic voice again. Did we ever spot them? They don't sound very formidable. They could of been among those The War King or Devonire welcomed back they would have had more experience of the outside universe then any others at the time. All we know for sure is was several high level technologies. At least The Hand of Omega and The Sash of Rassilon seem to be widely assumed. Ultimately their erasure doesn't matter as Rassilon reintroduces them on/from Gallifrey 7. Given the then aesthetic of the Faction Paradox franchise it's probably merely for gothic effect. "perhaps to check whether some local time distortion had has changed the position of the sun". It seems to be his go to check method, while he might have some inate sensing ability it wouldn't be as developed and thus useful as that of a trained Wave soldier or agent or a long term renegade. His lack of any recorded reaction to it suggests that there were no distortions it's just the enemy, (perhaps an aspect of it's leadership given Formasii isn't scared of it and it's previously known abilities/actions against high profile Timelords). How does and why would One come into this? Since when did we know it's gender?
That doesn't mean the Factio knows anything, it's just as likely to be something she deduced from what the Babel said to her. The entry makes it clear she had no knowledge of the Faction and couldn't understand it, (it's mindset and nature) as she belonged to the previous cultural revolution/upset, due to the Morbeus's Presidency). The Order of the Weal made no move against the Faction due to it's decline. All we know is the Faction some of the surviving idealists.
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Post by Aristide Twain on Nov 2, 2022 9:43:07 GMT
How does and why would One come into this? Since when did we know its gender? I assume garyshots is sticking with the idea discussed in earlier Weeks that Umbaste's “One” is the same entity as ‘Mother’ and/or Lolita, and is the Enemy.
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Post by garyshots on Nov 3, 2022 17:13:45 GMT
I definitely think that One/Lolita/potentially Lolita's kids are an enemy, and Compassion thinks so too. In fact, she thinks they're the real enemy.
But I don't think that they're the mysterious faction that we/the Great Houses/the Doctor are talking about when we refer to "the Enemy", and neither does Compassion. She thinks the Enemy are a distraction from the real War.
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Post by Aristide Twain on Nov 3, 2022 17:30:19 GMT
I understand; but it is the identification of Umbaste's ‘One’ as having anything much to do with Mother and Lolita that I still reject.
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Athenodora
Little Sibling
Posts: 14
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Athenodora on Nov 3, 2022 18:45:09 GMT
My brain spent last night Schrodingering over the idea of Umbaste's "One" being the same as Infinity Doctor's "Ohm" - at first I thought it a clever twist, and then I thought, nah, that'd be the most boring thing ever. It'd be telling the same story as every other Omega story, except none of those jerk the readers around by spending so much time pretending to be something else.
More to the point, though, the one good outcome of all that is me rereading Umbaste's entry in the Book again, and noticing the bit about "One" being literally an English rendition with the time-active components removed of Umbaste's actual word. So... do we think we can reverse engineer what the original word actually is?
(this would be even more doable if it turns out that "stripped off of its time-active components" is cheeky double-speak for "stripped off of the overt Doctor Who reference element")
Also... Umbaste as one of the Seven Prophecised Heads? Umbate was, technically, the Head of the Presidency at the time, and the process with which he gained his prophetic insight is explicitly described in the text as involving him detaching his mind from his body.
And, unlike the other Head of the Presidency, this one did actually *speak* his prophecy ;3
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Bongo50
Little Sibling
Currently reading The Book of the War
Posts: 44
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Post by Bongo50 on Nov 3, 2022 20:27:24 GMT
I enjoyed this section more that I was expecting. It was very different to what I thought it would be. I assumed it would be about the role of Academicians for Game Logic itself but it went into a lot of detail on just one person which was a lot of fun.
I was surprised to find a little bit of evidence that supports my theory from last week. Firstly, from "Academicians for Game Logic":
I'm reading this as the Great Houses needing to understand and be aware of their own society to understand the Enemy and this suggests to me that there is some form of connection between the 2 factions. Secondly, Appendix I mentions how the House's agent on Dronid was affected by the environment he was in. This links to my theory (based on the Origins comic) that, when Homeworlders regenerate, they become more like their environment. Perhaps this is what happened to the House agent?
Another thing I liked from Appendix I was the description of the War as between 2 alternate kinds of history. I like all of these little reminders that the War is really a very abstract concept for us lesser species.
The Waves of the House Military were very interesting. I was wondering how these worked due to their mention in earlier entries and this clears a lot of things up. I particularly like the concept of the Sixth Wave.
I don't have anything much to say about it, but I liked the idea of Paradox Anxiety.
At this point, I've resigned to the fact that I will not be able to keep up with the pace of the club. I will get through entries when I can but I'm not going to worry about falling behind.
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Post by Aristide Twain on Nov 3, 2022 20:38:37 GMT
This links to my theory (based on the Origins comic) that, when Homeworlders regenerate, they become more like their environment. Perhaps this is what happened to the House agent? Normally drawing on post-FP Doctor Who media like this would be a perilous endeavour at best, but here it's a very fitting lift, because Origins itself got it from Miles (knowingly or not) — I.M. Foreman in Interference to be exact. Of course, in both of these sources it seems to be a feature of early, "unrefined" forms of regeneration, but it is not impossible that even modern regeneration would retain some traces of this chameleon aspect, sufficiently so that certain extraordinary circumstances could produce noticeable effects.
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Post by garyshots on Nov 3, 2022 23:43:16 GMT
I understand; but it is the identification of Umbaste's ‘One’ as having anything much to do with Mother and Lolita that I still reject. I'm surprised! I never realised it was controversial. To me it seemed as clear as day when I read Appendix III: She literally pings the Matrix circlet from The Invasion of Time and says "one"- twice. Granted, Carmen doesn't capitalise it, but she doesn't capitalise "enemy" either, even when people are talking about the Enemy. Compassion's threatening them with her enemy, just as the War King threatened her with their Enemy earlier. I suppose that's part of the fun of the Book, that we can come out with such wildly different interpretations. Even though mine are clearly correct.
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Post by Aristide Twain on Nov 4, 2022 9:20:23 GMT
To me it seemed as clear as day when I read Appendix III: She literally pings the Matrix circlet from The Invasion of Time and says "one"- twice. Granted, Carmen doesn't capitalise it, but she doesn't capitalise "enemy" either, even when people are talking about the Enemy. Compassion's threatening them with her enemy, just as the War King threatened her with their Enemy earlier. Clever, although we did say relying on information from parts of the Book we haven't got to yet was poor form. Obviously there is something there, but that still doesn't seem like it clinches the case for "One is the designation of a specific intelligent agent who is the same entity as the Mother of Timeships". For… er… one thing, " as a matter of fact, I think you can answer it yourself quite easily. You know where to look" suggests to me that the 'one thing' is something the War King already knows about; something, then, which is consistent with the War King's beliefs about the Enemy, as much as with Compassion's. So perhaps Compassion believes ‘One’ to be something to do with the Lolita masterplan, but surely the War King believes it to be something else. For another, if 'One' is a sentient entity and kin to timeships, would Compassion refer to it as, well, a thing? That doesn't sound like her! Being that I still don't agree that Umbaste's One and the Rivera Manuscript One are the same thing, I remain of the opinion that ‘One’ refers to some sort of mind-bending vision related to the nature of the Enemy, but is not a name for the Enemy itself, whether it be the Mother of Timeships or anything else.
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Athenodora
Little Sibling
Posts: 14
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Athenodora on Nov 4, 2022 10:30:18 GMT
For… er… one thing, " as a matter of fact, I think you can answer it yourself quite easily. You know where to look" suggests to me that the 'one thing' is something the War King already knows about; something, then, which is consistent with the War King's beliefs about the Enemy, as much as with Compassion's. So perhaps Compassion believes ‘One’ to be something to do with the Lolita masterplan, but surely the War King believes it to be something else. now, what is the one thing practically only the Master knows about, and that can be looked at in the Matrix database? that's right, One is the Timeless Child
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Post by garyshots on Nov 4, 2022 12:19:36 GMT
now, what is the one thing practically only the Master knows about, and that can be looked at in the Matrix database? that's right, One is the Timeless Child I do love the Timeless Child. And imagine the fun we could have with the Cloister Wraiths! 😹
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Nov 4, 2022 13:04:33 GMT
To me it seemed as clear as day when I read Appendix III: She literally pings the Matrix circlet from The Invasion of Time and says "one"- twice. Granted, Carmen doesn't capitalise it, but she doesn't capitalise "enemy" either, even when people are talking about the Enemy. Compassion's threatening them with her enemy, just as the War King threatened her with their Enemy earlier. Clever, although we did say relying on information from parts of the Book we haven't got to yet was poor form. Obviously there is something there, but that still doesn't seem like it clinches the case for "One is the designation of a specific intelligent agent who is the same entity as the Mother of Timeships". For… er… one thing, " as a matter of fact, I think you can answer it yourself quite easily. You know where to look" suggests to me that the 'one thing' is something the War King already knows about; something, then, which is consistent with the War King's beliefs about the Enemy, as much as with Compassion's. So perhaps Compassion believes ‘One’ to be something to do with the Lolita masterplan, but surely the War King believes it to be something else. For another, if 'One' is a sentient entity and kin to timeships, would Compassion refer to it as, well, a thing? That doesn't sound like her! Being that I still don't agree that Umbaste's One and the Rivera Manuscript One are the same thing, I remain of the opinion that ‘One’ refers to some sort of mind-bending vision related to the nature of the Enemy, but is not a name for the Enemy itself, whether it be the Mother of Timeships or anything else. The Linking of One to Lolita is interesting. I had not considered that. And with the info in taking of planet 5 that the Timeships are considering becoming the Enemy with this interpretation I find rather interesting.and the events of Toy Story may have some baring on this.
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