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Post by doctornolonger on Jan 1, 2023 4:36:06 GMT
And if you believe that then I've got an invisible hyperspatial bridge I'd like to sell you…This post may be a couple weeks delayed, but in the end it feels fitting to close The Book of the War just as we close the book on the year of its 20th anniversary. In this thread we'll discuss the last few sections, from The End… - "Briefings" (p. 19)
- Humanity (p. 96-98)
- Nanotechnology (p. 133)
- Nevitz (p. 135-136)
- Time-Travel: Biodata Principle (p. 191)
- Younger World Story (p. 226-227)
…to the Coda. - Lolita (p. 116-117)
- Tracolix (p. 202)
And finally, the Design Specs document says, "There's a single entry which isn't connected to anything else, but never mind that now." This is the easter egg, the one entry missing from the Reading Order: I encourage you to try and find it yourself before clicking reveal! Congratulations and thank you to everyone who's made it! If this was your first exposure to FP, the Coda leads directly into the Faction Paradox Protocols audios, and The End is thematically continued by the first FP novel, This Town Will Never Let Us Go. Please stick around!
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Post by darkspine10 on Jan 10, 2023 17:02:18 GMT
Managing to guess the one entry not found in the reading order myself via some back-and-forth checking was a very gratifying experience. I'll repost my short thoughts on the entry from another thread: It's the entry on Parablox, right? I love the fact that the teased super important isolated entry, the only one to hide outside the reading list, is a paradox parody of Lego. Such a perfectly funny dénouement for the Book as a whole. A concept with no author, springing into life simply because the culture was so suffused with 'weirdness' from the Great Houses and Faction activity. There's even a little paradox in the entry itself (check the dates).
"There was no advertising campaign and no apparent drive to make the product fashionable" sounds almost like a mission statement for Faction Paradox as brand itself. What a lovely little coda. |
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PI9090
Cousin
I was loomed this way.
Posts: 91
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Post by PI9090 on Jan 16, 2023 0:45:38 GMT
HumanityWhile the, "Book of the War" itself admits to having a human viewpoint bias/prejudice it still describes and dismisses humanity, (particularly posthumanity) as only seeing itself as being important or special several times. NanotechnologyAny incursion into spacetime at tactically important sites is detected so force size doesn't matter. The Timelords's existance disproves Nevitz's speculation that a biodata aware society would stop caring about matter. But they did to the point where they hate their physical forms. what in the war has shown that Nevitz's assertions hold weight? Ronald Bela Nexitz (1912-1979)Visual reference proposal: Mr Miles. It seems fitting. Biodata Biodata is, "Time .D.N.A." that defines an individual's physical universe and nooscape of history niche. A naturally occuring strand of data that dictates every individual's movement htrough spacetime aswell as contning their physical profile. According to quantum thinking nothing provably exists, the universe is just a series of probabilities that may or may not happen, may or may not be measureable. No scientific theory can prove which are true only a concious observer's presence can collapse the possibilities until only one state is seen to exist, (when someone is present to give them meaning). The real mass of the universe is biodata strands explaining conceptual entities's existance). An individual is their biodarta strand, (a trail through the continuum connecting all the strands they have actiualised, merging and spliting as necessary) meaning they are a mass of collapsed possibilities and transtemporal information which is invisible and inconceivable, (referred to as meaning mass or intangible greater self). Every conscious entity is the size of a world and there's no dividing line between lives. We need to develop a definitive biodata defintion. The Faction gives biodata great ritual significance unecessarily, (similar to how Shrine and Sombre des Corta aren't actually needed unless Grandfather Paradox engineered his alter time hacks that way). Timetravel: Biodata PrincipleAn extensiton of Nevitz's theory. Biodata modification means modifiying not just the subject's timeline but those of everyone they have interacted with to varying degrees. Being biodata manipulation capable is the best time active culture definition. .T.T. capsules work by reencoding/"shifting" a secrtion of the traveller's biodata strand so that they simply are at the desired location rather then physically moving. Traveller's destiny prediction is rendered virtually impossible as even a small journey can cause a massive, "shift" in the biodata's, "future" end. (What is the timespace vortex then? It physically exists and has native wildlife). The act of biodata modification is already part of the biodata strand meaning that the biodata only says that the subject's timeline is infinitely changeable. Open ended biodata and thus open ended destinies. Some posthuman sects, (including The Remote) doctrine that their biodata is intrinsically superior to the Timelords as they have no fixed place in the universe, (it isn't, it's just inferior complex triggered jingoism. How can having more options be worse then having none?). These beliefs are fueled by the apparent but inexplicable links between the Timelords and cultures like humanity. The fact this theory is held in such low regard on Gallifrey reinforces the idea that this is juat a mindset rather then anything actual. Most high level technologies, (particularly weapons) require a certain type of the user's biodata for effective use. Natural biodata, "enhancement" due to timetravel can either lead to rapid promotion or stasis preservation. The Younger World StoryA theory or rumor privately circulated during 50.D.T.W.. It's existence might prove Humanity has a specific role to play in the universe. (Given the Great and Bountiful Human Empires and the subsequent Galactic Federation it seems more likely to be a cultural one rather then anything enemy wise as the story implies. If anything that makes it more important). Some of the more militant newblood houses's more motivated and jingoistic self doubt created. (The mention of House Lolita suggests that she started or enlivened the rumor for this purpose). Fact 2: Ten million years of cultural stasis is absurd from the perspective of lesser species and perhaps the more, "eccentric" newblood Houses but it makes sense as the Timelords aren't really physical thus lacking the emotional drive/mental basis and as explained before it's part of the faustian bargain tof the anchoring, (remember their collective creeativity was banished duirng it and became the Carnival Queen). Fact 3: The Timelords wouldn't conform to any anthropological models by their very nature and their Ghost point interference explains humanity's non conformity. Fact 4: An opinion about alledged simularities which can be explained by the anchoring plus all species focus on the aspects of Timelord biology that are similiar to theirs. Appeals to humans because it allows them to use the Ghost Point to excuse/blame someone else for their subsequent lack of development and paly the, "greater powers think we are special" ego card. Only the specifically human version is mentioned here suggesting others for different species. https://www.reddit.com/r/factionparadox/comments/vfjgua/the_enemy_and_earth_the_timelords_belief/https://www.reddit.com/r/factionparadox/comments/vq4cj7/the_younger_world_story/House Lolita Chapter: Scendeles. Probably the same as Tracolix for convenience's sake both in and out of universe. Sudden existance post O.S.T.W. is dismissed as it being just another experimental newbloodline. No great impact. What did we learn about the enemy?107.They can detect all spacetime incursion in tactically important sites. 108.Humans in the City of the Saved think it comes from Earth/they are it which seems to be wishful thinking on their part.
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Post by scottxwl on Jan 20, 2023 15:56:04 GMT
Congratulations to all who did this. I'm sorry to say I'm not one of them; hurricane Ian kinda upended my life for a while. But I'm really looking forward to picking this up where I left off and seeing what you all had to say!
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Jan 21, 2023 17:12:08 GMT
House Lolita Chapter: Scendeles. Probably the same as Tracolix for convenience's sake both in and out of universe. Sudden existance post O.S.T.W. is dismissed as it being just another experimental newbloodline. No great impact. What makes you say that they are linked to the Scendles? And and are the Scendles not implied to have been removed from power and replaced with another House? And if we are going down this roof surely Prydonian would be far more likely considering Lolita’s… Ex. |
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Post by garyshots on Jan 22, 2023 14:05:28 GMT
"...it seems unlikely that House Lolita will be making a great impact on Homeworld politics in the immediate future" is the ironic voice again. It's the real world authors of The Book having fun with the complacency of their fictional counterparts, who are blissfully unaware of the events of the forthcoming audios.
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PI9090
Cousin
I was loomed this way.
Posts: 91
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Post by PI9090 on Jan 24, 2023 22:24:30 GMT
What makes you say that they are linked to the Scendles? And and are the Scendles not implied to have been removed from power and replaced with another House? And if we are going down this roof surely Prydonian would be far more likely considering Lolita’s… Ex. House Lolita of Chapter Scendeles. Chapters and HousesScendeles is one of the three minor chapters, (so unknown even the Tardis Files get it's collar and robes wrong) what better place to hide from the majority of the Timelords while not be considered a threat by the High Council? Plus the Chapter needed some houses assigned to it while Prydon seems to have most of those that are known. |
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Jan 25, 2023 12:51:01 GMT
What makes you say that they are linked to the Scendles? And and are the Scendles not implied to have been removed from power and replaced with another House? And if we are going down this roof surely Prydonian would be far more likely considering Lolita’s… Ex. House Lolita of Chapter Scendeles. Chapters and HousesScendeles is one of the three minor chapters, (so unknown even the Tardis Files get it's collar and robes wrong) what better place to hide from the majority of the Timelords while not be considered a threat by the High Council? Plus the Chapter needed some houses assigned to it while Prydon seems to have most of those that are known. I still say that by the time of the war Scendeles has been ruduced in importance so much so that is is a simple old blood house and not a very powerful one at that is place as a ruling house and chapter being take by Xianthellipse. And thus House Lolita would be under House Tracolix which has replaced one of the other houses as an acting as a Chapter. However House Lolita would eventually replace Tracolix as a ruling House. Before eventually ascending ti the presidency and another house taking its place. this theory that the chapters where replaced by the ruling houses is reinforced by mention a red robes house (clearly intended to be Prydon) being mentioned as being no longer in power. This suggests that chapters are not permanent. |
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leahhh
Little Sibling
Posts: 36
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Post by leahhh on Feb 20, 2023 18:33:35 GMT
Been away from the forum for a while and missed this thread! Let's talk about some of the most interesting parts of this and the previous section.
The Younger World Theory and the Mount Usu Duel
The Younger World Theory points out that humanity was on the brink of becoming a culture of pure information - possibly a biodata-aware, and thus time-active culture? The section seems to strongly hint at that, if not say it outright.
Both Earth and the Homeworld experienced an inexplicable 10 million year period of stasis. However, notably, the Homeworld's 10 million years start after the founding of history - after reaching their current culture-and-biodata-over-matter society - while Earth's stasis starts after they failed to do so. What then could be the cause of these periods? For Earth, it sounds like it's because they have nowhere left to go after having their future stolen. For the Homeworld... do they just have nowhere left to go in general? Or perhaps it's because they're basing themselves off Earth and can't advance past that point by themselves.
Assuming the theory has any truth to it, it's possible that the Houses did something to prevent Earth advancing because they saw humanity as a threat. It's also possible that they were in some way created by humanity, "large-scale projections of human cultural concerns", and somehow 'undid' Earth's time-active future in order to take its place. Either option seems possible with the text of the entry.
The text is also ambiguous about which is the Younger World. I note that the Homeworld's history is given as 10 million years of stasis, while Earth's is given as 4 million years of cultural development plus 10 million of stasis. By the numbers, that makes the Homeworld younger, although we don't get a number for Homeworld cultural development prior to the Anchoring.
Looking elsewhere for a moment, we should ask ourselves why Faction Hollywood comes immediately before the end of the reading order. These hollow spectaculars and meta-fictional TV shows whose meaning depends on the viewer certainly seem to be prompting us to think about culture in a certain way before we get to the big finale. But this doesn't seem to be a Broken Remote scenario, where viewer-dependent signals leave the culture stagnant. These media are from the twentieth century, the time of humanity's last great push toward... something. It's not till the end of these things at the turn of the century, the disappearance of "the Twentieth-Century Fox" Brookhaven, that the culture ends up as a whole lot of nothing.
So since Brookhaven's disappearance seems so important, let's look at the Mount Usu Duel.
Someone's future is getting stolen, just like the YWT suggests. But whose? Is the Voice addressing Brookhaven, nominally a Faction member but in practice more closely connected to the culture of humanity, or Cwej, a Great House agent? It seems more likely to be Cwej - the Great Houses stealing Earth's future. Note that the other entries in the section seem quite vague on what Cwej was doing in the Hollywood Bowl, other than "investigating" on "a mission". But there's also the possibility that the Voice means Brookhaven - was Mujun: the Ghost Kingdom, as the culmination of twentieth-century culture, an attempt to steal the Great House's future that ended up being ruined by the presence of Cwej?
This is the line that led me to save discussion of the Duel for Week 16. I'm really not sure what to make of it! Apparently Earth is the Younger World, despite what I suggested earlier. But as for "this is where it's born"... I think I'm missing something about what the phrase "younger world" really refers to. Does anyone have more thoughts on this?
What started in 1925?
"The six" presumably refers to the six main characters of Mujun, who I believe are understood to represent Godfathers Morlock and Sabbath, Cousins Justine and Eliza, Compassion, and Lolita. Perhaps the Voice has some intentions towards those people, like rewriting their histories? Or perhaps it intends to recostume the characters as those figures - turning Lady Wakai into Lolita, etc. - and the events of the Faction Paradox Protocols are just following the script of Mujun, played out on a grander scale for some unknown purpose? An interesting idea, but I'm not sure of the significance of this line in either case.
And that's the last section of the Book! Of course I'm looking forward to more discussion, but let me say for now that I had a lot of fun reading with you all.Thank you to doctornolonger for running the whole thing! I noticed a lot of new details, and I think I came away with more questions than I started with, but the questions were always part of the fun, weren't they?
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Post by garyshots on Feb 22, 2023 0:24:05 GMT
I know I haven't typed up my Week 15 notes yet, but:
The Anchoring in the caldera somehow triggered the Yssgaroth eruptions.
The failed/aborted/sabotaged Anchoring-type-event at the Hollywood "world navel" triggers the eruption of the New Enemy, and there's even a volcano so that we don't miss that it's a parallel event.
If the Yssgaroth were/are the creativity/fertility/sexuality that the original Homeworlders had to sacrifice to become Lords of Time, how much of themselves were the fictional humans giving up? I think of the New Enemy as humanity's stolen future, which explains why it dovetails so neatly with posthumanity, but what does that actually mean?
If the Yssgaroth represent the severed biological roots of the Great Houses rebelling against being repressed, their subsequent horror of their own flesh, perhaps the New Enemy represent the opposite: humanity's lost aspirations to develop beyond our bodies. The subtle rather than the gross, the stolen future of Earth rather than reminders of a repressed past. Transhumanity, perhaps, rather than posthumanity?
The New Enemy appears to be born from two forces: there's the invisible god in the sky and whatever bursts out of the volcano and reaches up to meet it.
So what bursts out of the ground? We're told that the Ainu hosted an "unseen subterranean presence"/"reasonably powerful force" observing the Gauntlet. (Is this the Old Enemy?) We're also told of a "vast Egyptian set buried beneath the Los Angeles Desert". And then, well, there's the green goo from Inferno, albeit retconned into Yssgaroth biomass. (I'm a bit hazy on that.)
And what is the god in the sky?
If you read The Book from cover to cover, Appendix IV with the Doctor's praxis/Matrix fugue and the attack on the Homeworld is the big finale, and a jolly exciting one too. But in this reading order, Mount Usu Duel is the grand climax, and then it just sort of goes on a bit like Lord of the Rings after Mount Doom. Mind you, Grandfather Loz liked that ending.
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Feb 22, 2023 11:50:24 GMT
I know I haven't typed up my Week 15 notes yet, but: The Anchoring in the caldera somehow triggered the Yssgaroth eruptions. The failed/aborted/sabotaged Anchoring-type-event at the Hollywood "world navel" triggers the eruption of the New Enemy, and there's even a volcano so that we don't miss that it's a parallel event. If the Yssgaroth were/are the creativity/fertility/sexuality that the original Homeworlders had to sacrifice to become Lords of Time, how much of themselves were the fictional humans giving up? I think of the New Enemy as humanity's stolen future, which explains why it dovetails so neatly with posthumanity, but what does that actually mean? If the Yssgaroth represent the severed biological roots of the Great Houses rebelling against being repressed, their subsequent horror of their own flesh, perhaps the New Enemy represent the opposite: humanity's lost aspirations to develop beyond our bodies. The subtle rather than the gross, the stolen future of Earth rather than reminders of a repressed past. Transhumanity, perhaps, rather than posthumanity? The New Enemy appears to be born from two forces: there's the invisible god in the sky and whatever bursts out of the volcano and reaches up to meet it. So what bursts out of the ground? We're told that the Ainu hosted an "unseen subterranean presence"/"reasonably powerful force" observing the Gauntlet. (Is this the Old Enemy?) We're also told of a "vast Egyptian set buried beneath the Los Angeles Desert". And then, well, there's the green goo from Inferno, albeit retconned into Yssgaroth biomass. (I'm a bit hazy on that.) And what is the god in the sky? If you read The Book from cover to cover, Appendix IV with the Doctor's praxis/Matrix fugue and the attack on the Homeworld is the big finale, and a jolly exciting one too. But in this reading order, Mount Usu Duel is the grand climax, and then it just sort of goes on a bit like Lord of the Rings after Mount Doom. Mind you, Grandfather Loz liked that ending. Good idea but quick question for clarification, are you suggesting the the Yssgaroth and the Carnival Queen are the same? As the Carnival Queen is all of the Great Houses Irrationality (kind of what you have described the Yssgaroth as). It is possible mr Miles changed his mind at some point and made the Yssgaroth the stand in for the Carnival Queen as well but to me that seems a little unlikely in this case. So once more do you the Yssgaroth and the Carnival Queen are one of the same (or “siblings”)? |
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Post by garyshots on Feb 22, 2023 12:21:39 GMT
I wasn't thinking of her at all!  |
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Feb 22, 2023 17:14:42 GMT
I wasn't thinking of her at all! Okay so with hindsight how would you consider her relation the the Yssgaroth and the Enemy (she definitely has something to do with the Enemy (or at the very least the Yssgaroth) she did threaten to return at some point) |
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Post by garyshots on Feb 22, 2023 20:43:19 GMT
Okay so with hindsight how would you consider her relation the the Yssgaroth and the Enemy (she definitely has something to do with the Enemy (or at the very least the Yssgaroth) she did threaten to return at some point) Well, I suppose I think that if the Carnival Queen was supposed to play a key role in the "puzzle-box" part of The Book then she'd be in The Book. Of course, one might theorise that she's hiding in The Book under another name (I do this with Mother from Toy Story), but I don't personally think that she's linked to the Yssgaroth. Doylistically though, I do think that the seed-idea of the parts of themselves that the Time Lords sacrificed bursting out with a vengeance sprouted early in Christmas in a Rational Planet and flowered in The Book. Perhaps they play parallel roles in different bottles? |
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leahhh
Little Sibling
Posts: 36
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Post by leahhh on Feb 22, 2023 20:57:13 GMT
By Old Enemy/New Enemy, are you referring to the Enemy of Alien Bodies and the Enemy of The Book of the War respectively?
I hadn't thought about the Mount Usu Duel as the creation of the Enemy, at least not in so many words, but it does make sense if we think of the Enemy as humanity's stolen future, which is an interpretation I tend to gravitate towards as well. But a few issues stick out to me:
The Voice is able to manifest at the Hollywood Bowl because of the presence of Cwej, a House Military agent. Does it make sense for a Wartime participant to create the Enemy? Is it even worth appealing to linearity here?
The Book points pretty strongly to the Duel being the Ghost Point. It's interesting then that the very next FP book, written by Miles himself, describes a completely different Ghost Point. Was the Hollywood Bowl Shooting a new Anchoring? Cwej describes it as "insane", which could mean anything but may be a point in favor, since a House Agent would presumably be against a new Anchoring. It was the culmination of "seventy-four years of ritual", which a bit of rereading has reminded me refers to the release of Battleship Potemkin and the beginning of Faction/Remote activity in Hollywood. And it may have been an attempt to "steal someone's future" - earlier I mentioned that I thought that referred to Cwej stealing Earth's future, but now I notice that the Voice says it again right after the thing about ritual, which makes me think it refers to the Shooting itself.
On the other hand, I don't get the sense that Brookhaven intended to steal anything, nor does that seem to be the goal of Faction Hollywood's previous work.
The first Anchoring let the Yssgaroth in, while the Voice says "When the coherency's broken, anything can happen. When anything can happen, anything can get in." Does that mean an uninterrupted Shooting wouldn't have let the Enemy in? If humanity did reach its potential, there would have been no Enemy? Does that mean the Enemy is a sort of negative space, an absence of humanity? But the Enemy works with posthumans, most notably in the Rivera Manuscript.
I no longer feel certain about anything...
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