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Post by doctornolonger on Oct 25, 2022 3:11:34 GMT
Sacrifice, especially human sacrifice, is always a dubious topic for discussion.Happy Halloweek! We have another spooky two-hander, but we're gonna keep it together this time for thematic reasons. Hopefully we can clear up any lingering confusion about what a "flux" is during The Non-History of the Celestis: - Anarchitects (p. 8-9)
- Chaotic Limiter (p. 32-33)
- Conceptual Entities (p. 38-39)
- Fluxes (p. 67)
- Gargoyles (p. 70)
- Meme (p. 123)
- Mictlan (p. 124-126)
- Order of the Dragon (p. 142-143)
- Ottoman Purges (p. 146-147)
- Sacrifice (p. 170-171)
- Shifts (p. 177)
And then we get a real treat. I'm very excited for this bit, since there's been so little online discussion of the Autrobulus hive, The Book's most straightforwardly scifi sequence. Although I'm not quite sure why it's called The Shift's Story: - Beshielach (p. 17)
- Dating War Era Events (p. 42-43)
- Greater Autrobulan Franchise (p. 79-80)
- Lords Celestial (p. 117-118)
- Memeovore (p. 123-124)
- Planetesimals (p. 152-153)
- Reboots (p. 161)
- Worldofme (p. 223-224)
Thanks for everyone who's hanging along, and see you next week for The City of the Saved – and/or last week at The Academician's Story!
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PI9090
Cousin
I was loomed this way.
Posts: 91
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Post by PI9090 on Oct 29, 2022 12:47:20 GMT
Chaotic Limiter
Reality quotants?
Allows the timeship pilot decide the malleability of the timeline by regulating it's casualness.
Low setting: Allows them to make a great deal of changes to the local timelines without affecting the future. Used for reconnaissance.
High setting: their changes have a greater impact on the future. Used for battles so that it's worth fighting but is very risky.
Detonating a nuclear bomb under a low setting and standing on a random butterfly under a high setting will have the same effect.
No upper limit has yet been found.
Extremely high settings backfire as the chaotic changes tending to negate the conditions that created them, (Choatic might not be the right word but no more suitable appropriate/rational term has been devised). Can be used to create Fluxes, (the technology used to do so can be juryrigged to create conceptual entities).
Some academicians theorise that the enemy is further along in scaling the higher setting because their forces are difficult to pin down.
Suggested that continuum areas have different settings, (temporal inertia). Could be natural or deliberate Wartime strategy. A battle preparation difficulty is gauging the local inertia, (Inertiabar charts are among the first contraband and forgies offered to troops landing in a time aware era).
Fluxes
(I don't know why but everytime I read that something makes me think it's not just talking about Shifts).
The Timelords cannot create balanced Fluxes/Shifts and refuse to cheat using the Faction's alter time systems.
Meme
In War terminology translation meme is used instead of idea.
"Quite often ideas are the enemy". Presumably referring to Anarchitects and Shifts.
Memeovore
The enemy's life capacities are almost polymorphously variable.
What did we learn about the Enemy?
80.May be more capable in utilising higher chaotic limiter settings.
81.Their forces are hard for the Timelords and their allies to pin down.
82.Their reps might need interiabar charts as much as the Timelords.
83.Provided with conceptual eneity creation technology/specially design mmilitary concepts by some of the Celestis.
84.Their reps are: bled, analysed, have biomass removed, but rarely slaughtered by the Faction.
85.It's life capacities are polymorphously variable.
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Athenodora
Little Sibling
Posts: 14 
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Athenodora on Oct 29, 2022 13:43:09 GMT
Chaotic LimiterReality quotants? My gut instinct says that they sound like the amaranths from Christmas on a Rational Planet... or rather, an extension of the amaranths from CaRP. Once their owner has admitted that the technology can be used both way. That the end product can have more settings than just 'have effects following causes in a straightforward, rational manner' (something of a "middle" option between the low and high settings? Insofar as both the "low" and "high" options are irrational, with effects not matching up to causes). |
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Nov 4, 2022 7:40:30 GMT
I love me the Shift. Don’t know why just like how they kind of talk to you. It’s fun and also fascinating as well as one of the few direct mentions of Alien Bodies in the BotW
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Post by garyshots on Nov 6, 2022 12:03:55 GMT
This week is the first time I've found the order really counter-intuitive. It seems like it should flow directly from Celestis to The Impaler’s Story, without passing through the City of the Saved or collecting Shifts.
Oh well. I've got some notes ready for the week commencing 7th November- whenever I get there!
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Post by garyshots on Nov 8, 2022 0:53:02 GMT
A full discussion of the Poenari relic can wait for its own entry, but Order of the Dragon says that it "travelled from the lakeshores of Africa" (i.e. the "high place" in the Mountains of the Moon) "before the Fall" (of "Azazel/Shemjaza" and his two hundred "anakim" interventionists from the Homeworld).
Is the high place a kind of gate then, onto the labyrinth perhaps (if the Eremites aren't the same as the anakim or didn't construct the labyrinth in the first place), and the Enemy or whoever sent the relic through it before Azazel's fallen anakim skywalkers ever got there?
It's interesting that it's found with the Order of the Dragon, which is basically the Eastern sibling of the Society of St George. They possess "a reliquary of artefacts... whose ritual importance had more than a little in common with the other anti-Mal'akh groups of the era". The other artefact that comes to mind is the Liber Sanguisugarum, which was likely made with Great Houses technology, though not necessarily by the Great Houses.
The Order of the Dragon's emblem was "a dragon suspended from a crucifix", which links back to the Great Houses sigil/ouroboros/dragon-serpent of the Society of St George, but one also recalls Azazel "bound headfirst over the abyss for all eternity, hanging by one leg".
All these anti-Malakh groups seem to be closely related proxies for the Great Houses. You'd expect the Malakh to have the relic: they're on the other side. If the Great Houses' allies on Earth had the relic, why didn't the Homeworld find out about it?
Vlad II in Ottoman Purges reminds me of someone. Is it Devonire? He didn't have an heir who ended up crucifying people though, and the Imperator did.
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Post by garyshots on Nov 10, 2022 18:28:26 GMT
It's interesting that it's found with the Order of the Dragon, which is basically the Eastern sibling of the Society of St George. They possess "a reliquary of artefacts... whose ritual importance had more than a little in common with the other anti-Mal'akh groups of the era". The other artefact that comes to mind is the Liber Sanguisugarum, which was likely made with Great Houses technology, though not necessarily by the Great Houses. I suspect that this is intended as a clue to who passed the Poenari relic to the Order of the Dragon.
So who has access to Great Houses technology? Well, the Faction and the Celestis are both Great Houses offshoots. And Lolita is, amongst other things, Great Houses technology. But not the Enemy, I think, not really. They've got their own technology that works on different principles. |
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Athenodora
Little Sibling
Posts: 14
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Athenodora on Nov 11, 2022 13:57:10 GMT
It's interesting that it's found with the Order of the Dragon, which is basically the Eastern sibling of the Society of St George. They possess "a reliquary of artefacts... whose ritual importance had more than a little in common with the other anti-Mal'akh groups of the era". The other artefact that comes to mind is the Liber Sanguisugarum, which was likely made with Great Houses technology, though not necessarily by the Great Houses. I suspect that this is intended as a clue to who passed the Poenari relic to the Order of the Dragon.
So who has access to Great Houses technology? Well, the Faction and the Celestis are both Great Houses offshoots. And Lolita is, amongst other things, Great Houses technology. But not the Enemy, I think, not really. They've got their own technology that works on different principles. The most notable example of a special Great Houses book (as opposed to a book which contains special knowledge - although, with special enough knowledge, the distinction might well be nonexistent) that I can think of is the The Worshipful and Ancient Law of the Homeworld. An occult text in the literalmost, and utmost, sense, a book that was meant to tell us nothing, but time runs backwards over it, and if you turn the pages within a timeship, the timeship takes you to the Great Houses' fabled prison planet... which is a very ritualistic action, doesn't it? It's performing the correct action with the correct item in the correct consecrated space... it's using a timeship almost as if it's a Faction shrine.
So now the question becomes, are there any other books in the Homeworld designed with this kind of pagentry? Because if it's only this book/a specific set of books involved in a specific set of related fields and functions, then the pool of suspects is narrowed down a lot, from "those with access to Great Houses technology in general" to "those with access to this specific kind of Great Houses technology".
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Post by garyshots on Nov 11, 2022 16:14:52 GMT
The most notable example of a special Great Houses book (as opposed to a book which contains special knowledge - although, with special enough knowledge, the distinction might well be nonexistent) that I can think of is the The Worshipful and Ancient Law of the Homeworld. An occult text in the literalmost, and utmost, sense, a book that was meant to tell us nothing, but time runs backwards over it, and if you turn the pages within a timeship, the timeship takes you to the Great Houses' fabled prison planet... which is a very ritualistic action, doesn't it? It's performing the correct action with the correct item in the correct consecrated space... it's using a timeship almost as if it's a Faction shrine.
So now the question becomes, are there any other books in the Homeworld designed with this kind of pagentry? Because if it's only this book/a specific set of books involved in a specific set of related fields and functions, then the pool of suspects is narrowed down a lot, from "those with access to Great Houses technology in general" to "those with access to this specific kind of Great Houses technology".
I like it. I like it a lot!
I can't think of any other magical tomes of the Great Houses off the top of my head. The provenance of this one doesn't seem to lead anywhere, other than back to Rassilon and so on and so forth, which tastes more like Marc Platt territory to me. But Shada plays a key role in the mythology of the Spiral Politic. We know that the Grandfather was banged up in Shada: could he have studied it? For all we know, he was Salyavin's cellmate and they broke out together.
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Nov 11, 2022 17:03:05 GMT
The most notable example of a special Great Houses book (as opposed to a book which contains special knowledge - although, with special enough knowledge, the distinction might well be nonexistent) that I can think of is the The Worshipful and Ancient Law of the Homeworld. An occult text in the literalmost, and utmost, sense, a book that was meant to tell us nothing, but time runs backwards over it, and if you turn the pages within a timeship, the timeship takes you to the Great Houses' fabled prison planet... which is a very ritualistic action, doesn't it? It's performing the correct action with the correct item in the correct consecrated space... it's using a timeship almost as if it's a Faction shrine. So now the question becomes, are there any other books in the Homeworld designed with this kind of pagentry? Because if it's only this book/a specific set of books involved in a specific set of related fields and functions, then the pool of suspects is narrowed down a lot, from "those with access to Great Houses technology in general" to "those with access to this specific kind of Great Houses technology".
I like it. I like it a lot! I can't think of any other magical tomes of the Great Houses off the top of my head. The provenance of this one doesn't seem to lead anywhere, other than back to Rassilon and so on and so forth, which tastes more like Marc Platt territory to me. But Shada plays a key role in the mythology of the Spiral Politic. We know that the Grandfather was banged up in Shada: could he have studied it? For all we know, he was Salyavin's cellmate and they broke out together.
The Grandfather broke out during Romana’s presidency at the time as the Seventh life of a particular interventionist and not at the same time as Salyavin. The Grandfather Paradox’s escape is Documented in Christmas on a Rational Planet. |
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Bongo50
Little Sibling
Currently reading The Book of the War
Posts: 44
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Post by Bongo50 on Nov 11, 2022 18:33:47 GMT
I enjoyed The Non-History of the Celestis more than I expected. I'm still struggling to get my head around conceptual entities but I feel that that's kind of the point. They feel almost tangible - almost believably real - in the way they are described and explained yet it remains very alien. That's one of the things I'm really enjoying with The Book: yes, it has tons of out-there sci-fi concepts, but their explanations don't feel like technobabble, instead feeling at least a little reasonable and possible. I liked the entry on Mmmes (I don't know why nonotthememes is so against them!). It's easy to forget that this was written before the current "meme culture" when the term had a slightly different meaning. The idea of a meme is in itself a meme, evolving as the Internet took it and repurposed it. The idea of all ideas in The War actually being memes serves as a reminder of how abstract the whole conflict is: not only can battles be thought with troops but also with mere concepts. I found the brief tangent to Earth history with the Order of the Dragon and its subsequent few entries a little unexpected but interesting nonetheless. I feel that the medieval conflict between the 2 religions of Christianity and Islam serves as a decent analogue to The War between the Great House's and the Enemy's views of history. Neither conflict is over something particularly tangible but more over an ideology. The The Non-History of the Celestis's final entry on Shifts and then the subsequent section of The Shift's Story has to be some of my favourite entries yet. The break from the normal format is really nice and the Shift has so much personality with such a noticeably different style to the rest of The Book that it really stands out. I like the way things such as this cement The Book as very much an in-universe thing. It gives the book a lot more life. I also found it interesting how linear this section is with later entries requesting that the reader go back and read from the start. This really is one of the most straightforward series in the book. I am slightly annoyed at some of the entries overwritten, though. I was genuinely interested to find out how War Era events are dated. I'm looking forward to the next set of entries. |
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Post by garyshots on Nov 11, 2022 18:38:17 GMT
I stand corrected! And it definitely can't be paradoxy-woxy shenanigans? Does it explain what caused Romana to have her fit and that it's definitely not Salyavin's mind powers? |
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Post by garyshots on Nov 11, 2022 18:42:14 GMT
I am slightly annoyed at some of the entries overwritten, though. I was genuinely interested to find out how War Era events are dated. Yeah, at the beginning I wondered if the Shift had an agenda to deliberately obscure certain "boring" topics, and that's why it kept interrupting at such inopportune moments. There are no reliable narrators, after all. |
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Anastasia
Cousin
Liberating the oppressed of the Houses and toppling regimes.
Posts: 154
Preferred Pronouns: She/They
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Post by Anastasia on Nov 11, 2022 19:31:48 GMT
I stand corrected! And it definitely can't be paradoxy-woxy shenanigans? Does it explain what caused Romana to have her fit and that it's definitely not Salyavin's mind powers? The Carnival Queen (arguably the personification of pre anchoring universe) being released and spreading irrationality across the cosmos. whilst tangentially related it could be Pandora or another female President such as Flavia but that is rather unlikely. Also I would like to add the VNA’s had previously stated that The Homeworld exist physically in the distant past. |
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